http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/12/01/singapore.execution/index.html

An Austrailian citizen was executed in Singapore for drug trafficking. Doesn't execution seem excessive?

Note to self: stay away from Singapore :lol:

You get in trouble for chewing gum in Singapore, it's a very strict place! Ask Gracie!

Wow, that is is very excessive! Probably isn't much of a tourist attraction.

You get in trouble for chewing gum in Singapore, it's a very strict place! Ask Gracie!

Note to self: Do not send gum to christmas card exchangee in Singapore :eek:

I was there in late august, I didnt like it much however the pool on the 13th floor of the hotel (half way up the building on like a roofy thing..) with pool sauna, steam room, poolside room service, and hot tub was nice! you also get fined for spitting and alot of other things it's the fine-country of the world. :P Personally i think the guy shouldnt have been doing anything wrong in the first place sheesh, if you go to another country its another set of rules.

So he's visiting from Australia? I would think they should have sent him home for Australia to deal with. I don't think executing tourists will draw many visitors. If you're planning on going, I suggest you do some research before hand.

Well, thats odd, and yes, he should have been sent back to Austrailia.

Well, thats odd, and yes, he should have been sent back to Austrailia.

From boyfriend:

They probably did send him back to Australia...

... in a box.


:rolleyes:

I think this happened in Singapore, so...

There was this kid, a few years back, who was spraypainting walls and sidewalks in Singapore. Well, he got caught of course. They sentenced him to like twenty lashes on the back. He got them, too. I think the embassy was the one who said "When you go to a country, you have to follow their rules."

There's a reason that the crime rate there is so low, though. I mean, that guy probably never wanted to look at spray paint again in his life. Seriously though, you'd expect someone to follow the laws in your country if they went there.

Yeah, but execution? That's someones life we are talking about!

Think about this situation:

You are on the airport. You have to go to the toilet because you really need to.
You leave your bag before the door of the toilet. Someone puts a small plastic bag with drugs in your bag. When you enter Singapore they discovered the drugs and you don't know anything about it. Because it was more then 15 grams of cocaine (above 15 gram you can get executed) they sentence you to dead.

Thats one of the things that can happen with laws like that

Firstly, (in response to Sphere,) I do not think that would happen here-- the cameras would have caught the culprit and various other reasons too, besides, the law is obsessively fair here which brings me to my next point.

This guy already knows that in Singapore
1) it's death for drug trading
2) you are here, you play by our rules

So anyway, he got caught and surprise, he is sentence to death.

Poor thing? I think not.

As mentioned above, this is similar to the 1993 Michael Peter Fay case. Read about it here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay) if you want. WHY on earth do people feel sorry for them? They KNEW what would happen and they THINK they can get away with it. Just because they are not Singaporean?

He was a drug dealer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Tuong_Van). He's no hero.

IF Singapore had given in-- and didn't cane Mr Fay because President Clinton pleaded not too-- can you imagine how many people would think it's OKAY to come here and vandalise cars?

IF Singapore gives in and not hang the Aussie guy how many drug dealers would come here because they know they can get away with it?

Yes laws are strict here and kind of unreasonable if you might add. FINE FOR NOT FLUSHING THE TOILET? But I think that's why we know it's safe to go out at night here. No risk of chewing gum getting stuck in your shoes or whatever. It's clean, safe... drug dealers beware.

I for one totally agree with you. And airports are always cautioning people about leaving their bags unattended if i a bag is left then you'd probably cause a police squad or something :/ you never know

I find it quite strange that people can be so...flippant about someone's life though, sure sentence them to life in jail...but taking their life is a totally different matter to me. I suppose though that is more about my views on the death penalty in general rather than someone getting the death penalty in another country.



He was a drug dealer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Tuong_Van). He's no hero.



If everyone who isn't perfect is executed, there isn't going to be many people left in the world.

i understand where you are comming from but life in jail doesnt mean LIFE, especially here in england it seems to me to be really lax in some cases. But it would be awful if they were wrongly accused and put into prison, i dont think we should have the death penalty. Its hard for us to say really isn't it? We want proper punishments but not too much because what if they got it wrong?

But we are talking about in Singapore here, in the UK life isn't life but we also don't murder people...In singapore I'm sure life does mean life...I just don't think someone deserves to die for being a drug dealer, forget if it was a mistake or not, even if they did do it I think it's insane for someone to be able to take their life for it. The only time when i'd think, maybe just maybe the death penalty is OK would be in the case of a serial killer.

but theres a chance the drug dealer could technically be a serial killer if the drugs he has supplied have killed people? i dont think he should have been killed because i don't think its fair for someone to choose that for someone else. Its a toughy

I just don't think someone deserves to die for being a drug dealer...

That is a bit extreme in my opinion but it's not like they sprung it on him... like Avie said:

They KNEW what would happen and they THINK they can get away with it. Just because they are not Singaporean?

If you know the rules and you still break them, then you have to suffer the consequences, regarless of how severe they may be.

I agree with Avie. Singapore and Malaysia is very well known for the absolute zero tolerance for drugs and the death penalty. When I was in Malaysia, there were signs saying that drugs will lead to the death penalty all over.

When you go in a country, you play by their rules and he knew that.

As for the airport deal, you should know in this day and age to never ever EVER leave your bags unattended. They do say it over and over on the loud speakers.

I may not agree with the laws but it's their laws and you have to play by their rules.

I may not agree with the laws but it's their laws and you have to play by their rules.

I agree.

I think the death penalty for that kind of thing is excessive- but whether the punishment is fair or not isn't the issue here. it's whether he should have to follow their rules- which he absolutely should.

I just don't understand how you can say things like 'a bit excessive' 'a bit severe' - paying by spending the rest of your life in jail is 'a bit harsh' being killed for something is surely, another matter entirely?
I agree with all your points that you play by another country's rules when you are there (and I won't even get into how hypocritical America is on that issue) but with life?
I guess, I'm the only one who sees the huge distinction between punishment and death. Perhaps that comes from the difference of being brought up in a country that uses the death penalty anyway and...a country that doesn't?

I wonder if you'd all be as OK with it, if a member of your family was sentenced to death in another country for something that wouldn't be as huge a deal 'back home' or if you'd go 'hey ``' at your friend having his hand chopped off for stealing something while on holiday.

even if they do something wrong in their own country, relatives will likely have a different reaction- they could know that the person did something that they knew they shouldn't do, but because it hits close to home they'll try to argue that they didn't do anything wrong or they didn't know or whatever.

but the fact of the matter is that you have to follow the laws regardless of where you are, whether or not it would ok where they are from.

But do you have your own limits on that rule?
For me I totally agree with it, but not when it comes to the death penalty...surely theres a point where you (and everyone else) would say 'I don't care if that's the rule in that country, it isn't right' - In a lot of countrys it's perfectly acceptable and common for women to be abused by police, prison gaurds, people in power in general...would you still be accepting of someone being raped because 'Hey that really sucks, but they got arrested in that country, they shouldn't have broken the law if they didn't want to get raped!!'

I guess thats the point i'm badly trying to make, there has to be a point where you say 'Screw that countrys law, that's wrong' and for me that point is with the death penalty.

The point is, he went to Singapore, EVERYONE knows the rules in Singapore... No drug tolerance. If you are a drug dealer you should have enough common sense not to go to a no-tolerance country.. (Of course, these are drug dealers we're talking about though.) It's like if you're a woman, then don't go to a country where it is acceptable to be raped. Avoid situations in which you will get hurt. Otherwise, if you're in a foreign country with foreign policies, you follow their rules. No question. I mean, I expect a foreigner to receive the same punishment as a citizen for crimes committed here. A murderer in some states in the U.S.A. will get the death penalty, regardless of whether or not he or she is a citizen.

Another point, drugs kill people. Not only do they kill the user, the money produced from them is the source of many deaths all over the world. Innocent children are killed because of these drugs. Singapore wants to keep those drug dealers out, and it looks to me like they enforce their laws appropriately. If they let that one guy get away with it, more and more dealers would just keep trafficking through their country, unafraid of the consequences. Maybe their own mortality is the only way to get through to them.

I just don't understand how you can say things like 'a bit excessive' 'a bit severe' - paying by spending the rest of your life in jail is 'a bit harsh' being killed for something is surely, another matter entirely?
I agree with all your points that you play by another country's rules when you are there (and I won't even get into how hypocritical America is on that issue) but with life?
I guess, I'm the only one who sees the huge distinction between punishment and death. Perhaps that comes from the difference of being brought up in a country that uses the death penalty anyway and...a country that doesn't?

I wonder if you'd all be as OK with it, if a member of your family was sentenced to death in another country for something that wouldn't be as huge a deal 'back home' or if you'd go 'hey ``' at your friend having his hand chopped off for stealing something while on holiday.

I agree with you Starlet.

I find it sad that they had to take his life, and he couldn't even give his mom a hug. I mean... That, as small a thing as it is, seems to be almost what bugs me the most. It most likely isn't the mothers fault, but she has to see her son die, and can't even give him a hug... :'(

I wonder if you'd all be as OK with it, if a member of your family was sentenced to death in another country for something that wouldn't be as huge a deal 'back home' or if you'd go 'hey ``' at your friend having his hand chopped off for stealing something while on holiday.

I should hope that my family members would be smart enough not to steal in a country with a no tolerance policy. And if you notice, these are crimeswe're talking about. It's not like they are just these innocent victims being executed. They victimized someone. Someone was forced to suffer because of their actions. When a murderer is executed, everyone feels so sorry for his poor mother who watches on, but what about the small child who saw that same murderer kill her parent? Doesn't she deserve justice?

And drug dealers kill people all the time, innocent and guilty. They are murderers, whether or not the gun is actually in their hands. They're still responsible. There are penalties for our actions. Everyone makes mistakes, and most people have to pay for them at one time or another. That drug dealer made a mistake, and he paid with his life.

Well, I definately don't believe in the 'eye for an eye' theory. I'm not some hippy bleeding heart type who thinks 'aww poor them, rehabiliate, give em another chance' - I strongly believe people should be punished for crimes, lock em up and throw away the key. I just think it's totally different when it comes to killing someone as a punishment and think it's nothing short of barbaric to think it's ok for someone to pay for anything with their life.

On that note though, I'm bowing out of this thread as I'm just talking in circles :lol:

(love ya'll)

I agree with starlet.. I can't believe they killed him over drug dealing. I understand it's the law but.. he wasn't even from Singapore! You can't just assume he knew about the zero tolerance policy. Even if he murdered someone it'd be questionable.. but for drug dealing?? That's disgusting! How can the country kill a visitor?! Put him in jail, whatever, but.. they can't take his life away! The death penalty is so crude and horrible and.. absolute.

I know that their laws are their laws but.. he didn't directly harm anyone! It's all money, and i really don't believe people should be killed because of money. Ooh and that thing about "he sold drugs and drugs kill people therefore he killed people"... no. Definitely not the same thing.

One annoying thing about having their 'zero tolerance' policy is that ANYONE who's caught trafficking drugs automatically gets the death penalty. The guy doesn't even need a trial.

The problem? This guy was trafficking drugs to support his family. He had no income whatsoever. Does this merit him a death sentence?

The sentences in Singapore, I feel, are always harsher than what they're supposed to be. Michael Fay was give 4 stroke of the cane for vandalism (not 20 as someone mentioned before), 2 bloggers who wrote racist remarks were jailed and fined under the 'Sedition Act' (a term usually used under a dictatorial leadership), and opposition leaders against the People's Action Party (who holds all but two of the seats in Parliament) are sued for 'defamation' and bankrupted.

The judicial system isn't great either. There is no jury, because the person who gave Singapore independence thought 'it slowed down the process', and abolished it. The Chief Justice is nominated by Parliament, which means he is nominated by the PAP. That's why the PAP always wins defamation lawsuits.

Singapore is governed under the Internal Security Act, which people are arrested and jailed without trial. Instead of being regarded as 'innocent until proven guilty' in court, the reverse is true for Singapore.

Our laws are still very outdated. We still follow the laws of the time when the British colonized Singapore. ```` and oral sex are against the law, showing homosexuality tendencies in public is also against the law.

Our system of law isn't fantastic at all. It isn't surprising that the drug trafficker died under it.

Putfile, the media hosting service, has decided to ban Singaporean users because of this incident. :rolleyes:

^That's so stupid!! Just because they live in Singapore, that doesn't mean they agree with the way the government handled that situation. And how does that have anything to do with media hosting? Completely unfair and uncalled for.

Gosh. I hate the Singapore Government. They are horrible. I can't believe they still have hanging as capital punishment! it's barbaric! :mad:

If someone was caught smuggling drugs in australia then they would just have 3 years in jail or something. They would not have a death penalty like that guy did. But I wonder what they would do to a Singapore person if they were caught smuggling drugs in Australia. Would they give them a death penalty for revenge? Or would they just give him a life sentence in jail?

Anyway, my sister and I watched the LIVE report on Sunrise on December 2 2005. It was so sad when they did the 25 bells thing. I can't believe that he's been dead for 4 days now :(.

If someone was caught smuggling drugs in australia they would just have 3 years in jail or something. They would not have a death penalty like that guy did.

well then he should have done it in Australia.

I think a lot of people are missing the point that it was in a different country, where they're allowed to say what will happen to him. what if someone from [insert name of country other than the US here] wanted to criticize an American law? they can say all they want, but the people here decide that they think is appropriate. most laws have some reason behind them. some are for safety. what if someone from Canada drove into the US and started driving at 120 miles per hour on US highways? they'd put a lot of lives in danger- and just because they aren't from the US doesn't mean they should get away with it, because the speed limits exist to keep people safe.

I don't agree with the death penalty either- but is that the issue here? I thought it was whether or not someone should be subject to Singapore's laws when he visits there, not whether we personally agree with them. the government of Singapore wants it that way, so who are we to say that they're doing things the wrong way? regardless, visitors are subject to those laws- if they disagree with them they shouldn't visit or they shouldn't be doing something wrong.

and springangel, you say you have the government of Singapore. what about the states in the US that use the death penalty. what about any other countries?

Gosh. I hate the Singapore Government. They are horrible. I can't believe they still have hanging as capital punishment! it's barbaric! :mad:

Barbaric? And the deaths that results from the drugs should they be sumggled is NOT?

^ My sentiments exactly, aviegrace.

I can't believe they still have hanging as capital punishment! it's barbaric!

Barbaric? And the deaths that results from the drugs should they be sumggled is NOT?

I think she meant barbaric as in the type of death... If that is how she meant it, then I would have to agree with her... Hanging is kind of... old fashioned... In the US, people given the death penalty are usually given a leathal injection or some type of gas. There are a few states that still use the electric chair and even that seems "barbaric" to me.

hmm I agree with you actually, lindsAy...

personally i feel that injection is the 'lesser of all evils'-- it's supposed to be quick and painless right?

...it's supposed to be quick and painless right?


It's supposed to. I've watched it on TV and the person's heart is supposed to just stop and that's that...

I understand what alot of you are saying. If only there was a place with no crime but as you can see singapore can not stop it no matter what. So the only way the government "THINKS" they can stop it is to execute them. I mean truthfully if it was someone in my family dear to me I will be furious. That just makes them have more enemies and more people may want to go over there and do bad on purpose. I mean come on a fine for chewing gum? Wow! I would understand if the person were to spit the gum on the ground. To "Murder",yes murder no need to cover it with execution, is not there place to decide. I would understand life in prison but I also don't agree so much on some countries way they handle most prisoners. I mean Some prisoners change in prison. Unfortunately not all. If it were a serial killer especially if one of his/her victims were related to me I will be so mad. I just don't wish death on nobody. It's not my place to judge when it's gonna be someone's last breath. I leave that to the one truely in charge, God. Thou shalt not kill. Covering up Killed with executed doesn't make a difference to me.

There's no death pentality in Canada (I think). It is wrong to get the death pentality for drug trafficking! He should get life in prision without parole or be deported to Austarlia!

what if someone from Canada drove into the US and started driving at 120 miles per hour on US highways? they'd put a lot of lives in danger- and just because they aren't from the US doesn't mean they should get away with it, because the speed limits exist to keep people safe.

We Canadians also have speed limits posted on Canadian roads. It is marked in kilometres per hour. What if a person from USA drives on Highway 401 (one of the freeway roads in the province of Ontario, in the country of Canada) drives 100 mph (161 km/h) while the speed limit is 100 km/h. He thought that the speed limit is 100 mph, not 100 km/h, so he gets confused with metric and imperial units. He should go 100 km/h (62 mph), not 161 km/h (100 mph). because going faster than 100 km/h on Ontario freeways is against the law, and is also dangerous!. He could get fined.