So what do you think about using deprecated code? I think if you're going to code something, do it right for god's sake!

here ya go alphabyte, have at it.

Well, I think it the same. If you are going to make a website, you should make it viewable to everyone, not just IE users because let's face it... less and less people are using Internet Explorer and don't want to code for other browsers? That is just wack. Maybe you should get the pick out of your nose and learn that if you want a website, it should be viewable to everyone in the exact same way.

I agree 100%

Although it can be hard to make a website look the same in all browsers(especially them mac browsers!). But using IE only code is deffinitely bad idea. Speaking of deprecated code, to validate your code go here:
http://validator.w3.org

I think its important to code to standard if you are about serious webdesign and plan to make a career out of it, if your just making a site for fun and new to webdesign like 90% of this forum are then code it however and for who ever you want.

Don't lean too much on the "less and less IE people" fence, it might just break. I use IE, and personally, I'm sick of people saying, "haha, look, she doesn't make her site look perfect in Netscape!" and then go off and post something that doesn't show up in IE, and use the excuse, "IE must just be too pathetic to see it." If you're pushing the use of other browsers too much, people forget that the point of validating is to make your site look good in all browsers, not just in some.

IE displays coding errors. Mozilla/netscape displays things like they are coded. Microsoft is not coming out with any more versions of IE unless you have XP. If you don't have xp, then you are going to be forced to use the same buggy version for eternity. Unless of course you get smart and get mozilla. IE is also very buggy.

And I know the point of validating is to make it work right in all browsers.

But I don't think you should make a site if you're not worried about what it looks like in anything but IE.

Once you discover the wonders of mozilla, you'll never want to turn back :P

Originally posted by hockyfan641
IE displays coding errors. Mozilla/netscape displays things like they are coded. Microsoft is not coming out with any more versions of IE unless you have XP. If you don't have xp, then you are going to be forced to use the same buggy version for eternity. Unless of course you get smart and get mozilla. IE is also very buggy.

And I know the point of validating is to make it work right in all browsers.

But I don't think you should make a site if you're not worried about what it looks like in anything but IE.

Once you discover the wonders of mozilla, you'll never want to turn back :P

Absolutely. And I will lean on the less and less people using IE, because really, they are. -gaspshockhorror-

Originally posted by hockyfan641


Once you discover the wonders of mozilla, you'll never want to turn back :P

Mozilla(fb) is the most buggy thing ive ever used...after clicking the icon it takes about 10 seconds for a window to even come up, it doesnt scroll well at all, it isnt smooth and i can only use my favorates folder once then it wont allow me to use it again...which obviously isnt very useful lol

It's actually the fastest browser available. And it should be buggy...it's only version 0.7

Now regular mozilla, on the other hand, isn't buggy for the most part. They're up to version 1.6a

And besides, mozilla has a great bug report feature.

Now lets not talk about IE's bugs...that could be a very long list.

I don't see the point of why some people are so picky about validating and such... I mean if it's coded decently, and is at least viewable throughout different browsers, what does it matter? It may sound weird, but in my mind I consider people that are hung up on validating and having proper HTML are like some big authority saying "no, our way is better, you have to do it our way or else you suck!" kind of thing and it's a bit arrogant :P It's like... go find something constuctive to do with your time instead of whinging about how everyone's coding sucks. People know Microsoft isn't the greatest thing alive, that doesn't need to be restated to us 500000 times. When you try to incorporate ease of use into a product, you're bound to make it not as 'good' as something that's less user friendly.

Mozilla is all right, I like the tab feature, but it's hard to switch browsers, especially when the person who owns the computer [dad] doesn't like such things being installed on the system.

But that's the thing, in order for it to appear the same in most browsers, it needs to be validated. Well at least most of the time.

Whining about somebody's coding? No. If you're going to code, code right. Simple as that.

I think it does deserve to be restated as much as possible. Microsoft is making enough money, you would think they would spend some of it and take some time to make a decent browser. If microsoft is going to make it user friendly, it doesn' thave to be bad and buggy. Mozilla and netscape are just as user friendly as IE if not more.

could somebody define deprecated code, and validating sites, and please, for these defintions, couuld i get the unbiased version?

Originally posted by hockyfan641


Whining about somebody's coding? No. If you're going to code, code right. Simple as that.



I dont understand why people think they can get away with saying that....all you coding nazi types say it....everyone is entitled to their opinions and ways of doing things...if i came along and said "If your going to be religious, at least be a Christian as its the only right way' id get totally slated (and rightly so)

Tell me this, do you think...that *mary should code to standard? Mary only started making her first website 3 weeks ago, its for her family and friends...theres a little chat room and forum so they can all keep in touch, it took her a whole week to work out how to link to the forum and have it open in a new window...theres also a few pages with pictures and info about herself and some of her family members. Would you go to Marys site and tell her it looks crappy in Mozilla?

Code doesnt need to be validated to work by the way, my site doesnt validate (i assume) but it works in most browsers, might not look 100% perfect but it functions...i dont need a silly little w3c button to prove how 'leet' i am.



*Mary = made up person

I agree with what starlet said- if you're doing it professionally, take your time to make sure it looks the same in all browsers. if someone is just starting out or they know the overwhelming majority of their visitors use IE, it's less important for that person to make sure their code validates.

the simple fact is that for most people, validation is NOT THAT IMPORTANT. if you want to make sure all your code conforms to the standards set by w3c, go ahead and do it. if you come across a site that doesn't validate and a couple lines are out of place in a browser other than IE, you can leave. just don't force your manner of coding on other people that DON'T CARE.

</rant>

As far as this browser is slow yaddi-yadda:

For me it depends on the computer. On some computer, IE is so slow and on others Netscape is so we can't really say which is faster. On mine, IE is really slow but I know that at my inlaws, IE works just fine.

isn't the content what counts?

and isn't webdesign supposed to be a hobby for most of us? if so, get a life and go watch the news for some real problems in the world

Love,
Mirna

I agree with Starlet and Dude. You go guys. :D

Personally, I don't care if my website is using depreciated codeing or can't be browsed in all browsers. It's a personal website, so I could care less. Plus, 93.1% of the people visiting my personal site uses IE. (I've had over 12,000 hits, by the way.) ....And my other site which has over 14,000 hits....97% of the people are using IE.

Originally posted by LesPaul59
could somebody define deprecated code, and validating sites, and please, for these defintions, couuld i get the unbiased version?
deprecated code = specific code tags that may be unusable in future versions of (x)html.

validating sites = the W3C site has constructed the "correct" way of coding and will test your page coding against their rules. if it passes, it is valid.

as for the topic at hand...
i agree that if you are coding, try to code well and to the standards.

i also agree that many people use the internet simply as a hobby, dont care about standards, and dont want to. some of these people will use Frontpage which will code more on an IE basis. some people will use YahooPageBuilder which will code for a, well, really bad standards. but if the page works in the visitors browser most of the time, that is all they care about or want to for that matter.

learning to code is an experience that everyone may handle at a different level or speed of learning. coding in a "correct structure" is a higher level of experience and may also be set and different levels or speeds of learning.

everyone has their own opinion on how they want to code (or not). you may offer advice on the better way, but ultimately, it is up to them.

proprietary coding (stuff that only works in a certain browser or version) is a kicker, but many people like to see the specific effect in their browser of choice and like to offer it to their visitors using the same. there are ways to make it validate (going back on the subject) but it may take some workarounding.

as for coding for a specific browser, again, people like to offer the best view for thier visitors using the same browser. many people are not concerned at all for any other browsers visiting. IE is a major browser and most people will create pages accordingly. it would be nice if they did allow for Mozilla (Netscape).

i have seen an increase in the amount of Mozilla users, but, that may be a biased observation considering they are people who visit coding sites and forums mainly. for the average "surfer" they probably use IE or Netscape depending on what they started with with their ISP or installation. they will probably never know about Mozilla unless they go into a coding site or forum.

as Magicsun has noted, content counts. ultimatly, a perfectly coded site does no good if there is nothing of interest on the page itself.

Here's my opinion on sites that should at least try to get your code validated.
But first, let me say something about validation. There are differnet forms of code errors. There are, of course, deprecated code that errors in the validator. But there is also just plain coding mistakes. For example, leaving off a > some where, or putting in a /> like in xhtml. Or mispelling a tag wrong. Those errors should be fixed, no matter what the purpose of your site is.

Anyway, sites that should be validated, in my opinion, are sites that are getting alot of visitors and/or selling something.
Personal sites have no reason to be validated because they may get only 100 unique visitors a month, and most of them won't know too much about the internet.

My website has been up for a little less than a year, and has gotten a couple hundred thousand visitors. Most of my visitors are people who don't know much about html or the internet. So the majority of my visitors use IE. However, if you have a website that is more internet based, then there will more likely be less IE visitors, and more of other browsers.



the simple fact is that for most people, validation is NOT THAT IMPORTANT. if you want to make sure all your code conforms to the standards set by w3c, go ahead and do it. if you come across a site that doesn't validate and a couple lines are out of place in a browser other than IE, you can leave. just don't force your manner of coding on other people that DON'T CARE.

It is important. What if there's a site that is totally unviewable in netscape because of coding errors. Well I'm obviously not going to stay on that website very long. But if somebody asks for a code, I'm going to give them the correct one.

Getting your site 100% valid isn't necessary. I like to see my site valid, but it's not all that important. i dont need a silly little w3c button to prove how 'leet' i am.
You can put the w3c button on your site no matter if your code is valid or not. But you should validate your code to check for simple spelling mistakes or forgetting to close a tag or something. It can also help you. One of the errors most people will get is for forgetting to add alt text to an img tag. Alt text is checked by search engine's spiders and can help your placing in search engines.

ok.. here's my 2 cents

NOWHERE it says w3c is the Internet God and NOWHERE there is an Internet Bible that says "it is a sin to use deprecated code" so for the love of ice cream, people don't have to validate their code and there is nothing wrong with it.

As lefty2217 had once pointed out, w3c isn't the only html site out there.

I stayed up till 5am to code a layout for my weblog and made sure it validated and you know what? I downloaded Mozilla and shock horror, that layout looked different! So now to me, saying that if you validate your code and it will look the same in all browsers is a lie .. :( When I was coding the next layout I could not even be bothered with validating it. It's just too bad if you refuse to use IE. You can't see all the cool stuffs (colored scrollbars and drop down menus are so pretty it's just too bad that you missing it out).

< / rant>

ha! Missing out? Oh yes, I do miss all of those bugs very much. And boy did I love the popups.

But of course with mozilla you get pop up blockers, tabular browsing, built in searches, awesome toolbars, skins and more. IE is also a ton slower than mozilla. Netscape has some of the same features too.

I think lefty pointed out w3schools isn't the only html site out there. Although it is one of the better ones. w3c is much different that w3schools. w3c makes the web standards, they establish how things should be coded.

Mozilla displays things the way theyr'e coded.

Validating your code won't make it look the same in all browsers, it will help make it look the same. DId you validate your css also? If you don't validate it, then you have a much higher chance of it appearing the same in all browsers.

I have been using IE for a while now....have I seen a bug? No not one.

Do I get popups? No not one I have a blocker provided free by google. So built into IE i now have a serach engine and popup blocker, along with page ranks.

Using that toolbar, i found 178K sites have IE skins.

*Gets timer out*

My IE loaded in 1.5 seconds. That is so slow that I had time to get a sandwich!

Originally posted by hockyfan641
ha! Missing out? Oh yes, I do miss all of those bugs very much. And boy did I love the popups.


Nice change of topic, I was referring to colored scrollbars and drop down menus. And oh, the google toolbar comes with a popup blocker too; popup blocker isn't something exclusively to Mozilla.

Originally posted by hockyfan641
I think lefty pointed out w3schools isn't the only html site out there. Although it is one of the better ones. w3c is much different that w3schools.

So who told you w3school is "one of the better ones"? w3cschool?

And oh by the way, you are looking and posting at a very popular HTML help site/forum.

Originally posted by hockyfan641
w3c makes the web standards, they establish how things should be coded.

Wow they own the Internet?!

Originally posted by hockyfan641
Mozilla displays things the way theyr'e coded.

And so does every other browsers.

Originally posted by hockyfan641
Validating your code won't make it look the same in all browsers, it will help make it look the same. DId you validate your css also? If you don't validate it, then you have a much higher chance of it appearing the same in all browsers.

I quote you, "won't make it look the same in all browsers" and "it will help make it look the same", I'm sorry but you need to elaborate on whats the difference between the two phrases because I cannot tell.

And yes I validate my css file.

Bottom line is, my website didn't look the same in Mozilla.

But I don't really care anymore :p

You can't see all the cool stuffs (colored scrollbars and drop down menus are so pretty it's just too bad that you missing it out).

I'm affraid it was you who started the change of topics.

In my personal opinion, it is one of the better ones. I didn't say anything about this site did I? I didn't say it was horrible. but in my opinion I like w3schools.


Wow they own the Internet?!

please...they create the way things are supposed to coded. So in a sense, I guess they do. But the internet isn't just html and other code.


And so does every other browsers.

No, they don't. Internet explorer shows code that has errors. Mozilla shows the code that works. By IE displaying the code that has errors, it makes the page look worse and display wrong.


I quote you, "won't make it look the same in all browsers" and "it will help make it look the same", I'm sorry but you need to elaborate on whats the difference between the two phrases because I cannot tell.

Ok, I will. Validating your code doesn't gaurantee that your site will look the same in all browsers. It makes the chances much higher that it will.


My IE loaded in 1.5 seconds. That is so slow that I had time to get a sandwich!

I'm talking about when it loads webpages. Because the time it actually takes it to load on your computer can depend on system specs.

Originally posted by hockyfan641
Ok, I will. Validating your code doesn't gaurantee that your site will look the same in all browsers. It makes the chances much higher that it will.

Be that as it may, I'd still rather use the wrong code and have it look alright in all of the browsers I use. And yes, I do have Mozilla.

I would too. Although I love it when my code is 100% valid.

Originally posted by hockyfan641



I'm talking about when it loads webpages. Because the time it actually takes it to load on your computer can depend on system specs.

Maybe it's my headache, but did you just make my point for me? Yes you did. You can't say that Mozilla loads faster than IE when you just said it depends on system specs.

Originally posted by sebluver
Be that as it may, I'd still rather use the wrong code and have it look alright in all of the browsers I use. And yes, I do have Mozilla.

i agree. I used png's, but probably they didn't showed up in opera (or whatever those awfull imac's use)... like i care. Like many people said before, my site gets like 98% IE visitors, those who aren't that 98% just have bad luck and can't view my site properly. But atleast they can view the content, wich means they can still see the most important side of my site.

why should i code something that i don't ever will view in that browser? i use IE, so i code for IE... it's like making homework for french, german and spanish when you only have french... just because it are the languages at your school.

Originally posted by hockyfan641

I'm affraid it was you who started the change of topics.

In my personal opinion, it is one of the better ones. I didn't say anything about this site did I? I didn't say it was horrible. but in my opinion I like w3schools.

funny thing is that you are blaming her for changing the topic while she was just giving her opinion about something, and you are giving yours. So in the end, you are doing the same as she did.. how funny...

--------------------

it's also really funny IF this validating thing bugs so many people then how come that i haven't got one single email about "something is not right at your site" EVER since i have started my personal website while i know that some things might not show up properly? answer: because the content is viewable, and that's all people want to.... they want to read the blog, they want to play the quizzes they want to browse through your site. so what if they can't see one header image, they can still see the site and that's why they won't complain !


People often say "that provider is so slow!!" when i am talking with someone about internet providers but what they don't realise is that their computer might be slow... but no, that can't be true because their computer is perfect *sarcasm*. And that's the same with webbrowsers and things like that...

Bottom line is, my website didn't look the same in Mozilla.

But I don't really care anymore :p

agree :)

That made great sense. And no, that wasn't sarcasm.

Originally posted by LesPaul59
Maybe it's my headache, but did you just make my point for me? Yes you did. You can't say that Mozilla loads faster than IE when you just said it depends on system specs. agh!

Read my post!

Mozilla itself is a faster browser, no matter what your computer is!

I think one major reason why that is, is because it's a personal website. I do not have a personal website, therefore I get more people who understand the internet. Out of maybe 100,000 visitors, 70% of mine are using IE.
this:

why should i code something that i don't ever will view in that browser? i use IE, so i code for IE... it's like making homework for french, german and spanish when you only have french... just because it are the languages at your school.
is ignorance.
Lets say you had 30% of yoru visitors not using IE, like I do. Well that's maybe 30,000 visitors for me(that is if my site didn't look the same in mozilla and IE), that wouldn't see the site like it is intended. If you make a website, it should look the same in all browsers, except maybe those dreaded mac browsers. I understand that this isn't the case for your website.

answer: because the content is viewable,

well that's the thing, in some websites that are IE only, I can't see the content. I'll see a div covering up all the text or somethign like that.

EDIT: here's an example of somethign simple the validator will pick up;
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=meta+name%3D%22description%22+content%3D&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&btnG=Google+Search

Ya know what I don't feel like this getting out of hand.

Point one: If you want to validate your site, do it. It isn't a law.

Point two: If you don't want to validate your site, don't do it. It isn't a law.

Point three: Well ok there's a profesional site, they need to be validated. Personals don't. Consider the sources here! We are compared the opinions of apples and oranges!

Just don't be a Hitler and say do it my way because I want you to. It's opinion, thank you.

Oh, and I read your post ;)

Originally posted by hockyfan641
Lets say you had 30% of yoru visitors not using IE, like I do. Well that's maybe 30,000 visitors for me(that is if my site didn't look the same in mozilla and IE), that wouldn't see the site like it is intended. If you make a website, it should look the same in all browsers, except maybe those dreaded mac browsers. I understand that this isn't the case for your website.

if you make a website it should look the same in all browsers now who the **** did teached you that? who said that? and most of all how do you know that is the truth?

because i have the right to design whatever i want because it's my space, it's my money that i pay with and it's my creativity that i upload to it ! so basically, you have nothing to say about any website at all.

and oh yeah... don't tell people what they 'shouldn't ' use on their website when they ask for something they want to use because they ask for it, and we help them to get that code. You should be really busy with all those pagebuilder site's out there to tell them how to remove their website's of the net :) and do i care about those site's? no, because that's how i started too and that's how people learn how to work with webpages and such. just let them be them, so that we can let you be you.

and please, do not teach them what's right (according to you) and what's wrong because they allready have teachers enough at school and this is a place where they atleast can have some fun with webdesign and design whatever they want and whatever comes to their minds.

in the end, i can't believe we are making such a big deal of this while out there people are dying, wars are going on, the news if full of problems and last but not least we are making a fight over the net while in other parts of the world they don't even know what that is !

Just don't be a Hitler and say do it my way because I want you to. It's opinion, thank you.


Hm...I didn't say that. I said it's recommended. And I'm pretty sure I said it's not as necessary with personal sites. But for the reason I just pointed out in the link in my previous post, you should at least run it through the validator so you get rid of those stupid mistakes.

Originally posted by hockyfan641
And I'm pretty sure I said it's not as necessary with personal sites. But for the reason I just pointed out in the link in my previous post, you should at least run it through the validator so you get rid of those stupid mistakes.

so... it doesn't need to be validated, but you should atleast validate it to get rid of those stupid mistakes... riiiiiight....

one url for you: www.xanga.com
a biiiig job *sarcasm*

Most 'stupid little mistakes' will be noticed by the website owner because they will show something wrong, yes, even in IE. They may not be able to realise it themselves, but that's why there's HTML forums, to help them point out their errors and how they went wrong. You don't get that kind of personalised help from a validator.

Hmm..I thought this was my opinion

I guess it's not anymore.

It's best to learn to code right the first time, and then you won't have to worry about it later. It will also make you better at it.


and oh yeah... don't tell people what they 'shouldn't ' use on their website when they ask for something they want to use because they ask for it, and we help them to get that code. You should be really busy with all those pagebuilder site's out there to tell them how to remove their website's of the net and do i care about those site's? no, because that's how i started too and that's how people learn how to work with webpages and such. just let them be them, so that we can let you be you.

People with pagebuilder wouldn't be posting in an html section. Because, if i'm not mistaken, you can't edit your html with page builder.

I'm not teaching anybody. I'm posting my opinion. I just thought it would get rather repetitive saying in front of everything I say.

Originally posted by kittycat
Most 'stupid little mistakes' will be noticed by the website owner because they will show something wrong, yes, even in IE. They may not be able to realise it themselves, but that's why there's HTML forums, to help them point out their errors and how they went wrong. You don't get that kind of personalised help from a validator.
the validator is a tool to help you. Just like forums.

And I dont' see anything all that wrong with xanga.com...it is missing a doctype tag and meta tags, but other than that I odn't see all that much. The obvious mistakes I was talking about I gave an exmple of in that link.

EDIT: I'm trying not to make this personal, and you're not helping any.

Originally posted by MaGiCSuN
if you make a website it should look the same in all browsers now who the **** did teached you that? who said that? and most of all how do you know that is the truth?

Hey Miss Mod, no masked profanity! :lol:

and what is the point of your link, what just comes up is a blank google site...

And Kittycat was making her opinion, I don't see how it opresses you.

actually my reply was to magic sun. But by the time it was posted it ended up seeming like it was being directed at kittycat, and it wasn't. That google link shouldn't come up as a blank...ah well yes it does, sorry about that.

here's what i'm talking about:

OK, for some reason when i try to psot a link to a google search it just takes me to a blank google search type this in in google:
meta name="description" content=

Sorry for backtracking i forget about this

I said something like: Don't be a hitler and say do it this way because i want you to.

Originally posted by hockyfan641
Hm...I didn't say that. I said it's recommended. And I'm pretty sure I said it's not as necessary with personal sites.


Whining about somebody's coding? No. If you're going to code, code right. Simple as that.


That seems like you want people to "No. If you're going to code, code right. Simple as that."

yes, and I had stated why I said that previously. And, of course, this is my opinoin, and I think it would help people out when they are learning if they were to code correctly.

But not everyone makes sites for 100k people! so if you are doing a little site, you don't need to validate the site. why spend the time and energy when it isn't totally necessary.

I've already said that!

You said you should do it for small site. Look we're just going in circles here. This is getting old

small site...personal site...same thing.

Originally posted by hockyfan641
I would too. Although I love it when my code is 100% valid.


You need to check it then... for someone that is so gunho on validation, your site doesn't validate + on the right, that top little thing doesn't look right on Mozilla.

woo breath everyone breath hehe

Hockyfan641 youve said yourself on little personal sites its not such a big deal (yet you still keep coming back with little 'if your gonna do it do it right' type comments which sort of contradicts yourself) but that when it comes to the bigger/professional sites thats when it becomes important....read the thread, seriously were all agreeing on this so im not sure why theres arguing at all!

But now you need to take into account where you are, youre on a HTML site aimed at kids and newbies, not professionals...so when someone who doesnt even know how to upload something, or make a line break asks 'how do i change the font' telling them DONT USE FONT SIZE= ITS DEPRICATED, USE CSS!!! Just confuses them or makes them annoyed, we've had complaints about people who go around saying things like that before because it comes across as rude and arrogant to them!

So all im saying is...if you want to help out here (and its very much appreciated) just take into account who it is you are dealing with...tell them the 'correct' way to code all you want, just do it in a polite manner rather than going round shouting at everyone that 'THATS WRONG!' If someone before you posts a depricated code, feel free to post the 'correct' code after them...but dont be rude/shouty about it. Know what i mean?

Originally posted by Rosey
You need to check it then... for someone that is so gunho on validation, your site doesn't validate + on the right, that top little thing doesn't look right on Mozilla.
Yes, I know. I have an updated version on my computer that I'm working on.

But now you need to take into account where you are, youre on a HTML site aimed at kids and newbies, not professionals...so when someone who doesnt even know how to upload something, or make a line break asks 'how do i change the font' telling them DONT USE FONT SIZE= ITS DEPRICATED, USE CSS!!! Just confuses them or makes them annoyed, we've had complaints about people who go around saying things like that before because it comes across as rude and arrogant to them!

I normally tell them that the code is deprecated and it shouldn't be used. I either post the correct code, or correct a code somebody else has posted.

(yet you still keep coming back with little 'if your gonna do it do it right' type comments which sort of contradicts yourself)

I kinda agree, now that Ive thought about it more. But what i'm really saying is, it's not that important on something like a personal site/blog. But it's best to write correct code. Besides, its good practice. But if you don't, then it's not that big of a deal.

So all im saying is...if you want to help out here (and its very much appreciated) just take into account who it is you are dealing with...tell them the 'correct' way to code all you want, just do it in a polite manner rather than going round shouting at everyone that 'THATS WRONG!' If someone before you posts a depricated code, feel free to post the 'correct' code after them...but dont be rude/shouty about it. Know what i mean?

What I normally will do is say something like: "that code is deprecated," and then I'll post the correct code. Or if somebody needs help with a code I'll just type in the correct one for them. I don' tknow if you're just using shouting as an example, but I've never doen that before. I understand that people don't know what deprecated code is, and whats' wrong and what's not.

I'm also used to htmlforums, where we correct any code that is wrong, and nobody have any problems with it. We also review websites there, where we validate all of the code.

That wasnt aimed directly at you, we've had people like that in the past and because they are so rude with it they usually end up getting banned. As long as you are actually helping people (rather than just saying thats wrong) and are doing it politely there wont be any problems.

LEIA isnt w3c, or htmlforums or any other place...its LEIA and the general rule of thumb here is we help people how they want to be helped, and let them do it at their own speed/level rather than forceing the validated way on them :)

I didn't read this entire thread and, quite honestly, this topic is too boring to do so.

Point of the matter is, if people don't care about the "correct" coding, then they don't care. You won't change their minds. Just stop arguing over it because it's a useless battle.

Well I was told by a mod that if we wanted to talk about this to start a new thread. So that's what I did.

Okay but you all are just fighting back and forth and it's useless.

it's called a discussion.

Originally posted by lefty2217
Okay but you all are just fighting back and forth and it's useless.

See that was I was trying to say

And sorry, Hockey, I should have clarified myself: I meant small and personal as same, but the contradiction was that I said if your small, you shouldn't, but then you said you should when you posted "I said that"

Look, sensing stagnent debate, or "discussion," I ask that this just be closed. We'll just be yelling at each other for 4 more pages, and I don't want to see people getting yelled at and things like that. Let's just close it at this: This is your personal opinion. If you do it, great. If not, well it isn't "right" but it is viewable, and when you're a newbie, that's a lot.

Originally posted by hockyfan641
It is important.

you misinterpreted what I said. it is important FOR SOME PEOPLE. but for many, it isn't.

Originally posted by hockyfan641
But of course with mozilla you get pop up blockers, tabular browsing, built in searches, awesome toolbars, skins and more. IE is also a ton slower than mozilla. Netscape has some of the same features too.

I think everyone has picked up on the fact that you prefer Mozilla. no need to drill it into peoples heads.

Originally posted by hockyfan641
please...they create the way things are supposed to coded. So in a sense, I guess they do. But the internet isn't just html and other code.

yes, that one organization declares what they believe to be the way to do things. if you want to conform to them, you can, but not everyone has to.

also, THE INTERNET ISN'T JUST HTML AND OTHER CODE. so don't make such a big deal about the code. there's more to it than that.

Originally posted by hockyfan641


Once you discover the wonders of mozilla, you'll never want to turn back :P

I personally hate Mozilla. It's so slow it's ridiculous. Maybe in a few years they will improve it.

It looks way too much like IE also.

I find that most people who complain about validating have teeny tiny sites that no one visits and no one cares about, and the only attention they can get is to run around from forum to forum complaining about validating ;)

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by hockyfan641

I think if you're going to code something, do it right for god's sake!

Oh, and by the way Josh... your site does not validate. As a matter of fact, you're not even close!! You have 31 errors!! For all the complaining you've done, you should have at LEAST validated your site first: :lol:

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joshmccrain.com+

Talk about hypocritical...

I personally hate Mozilla. It's so slow it's ridiculous. Maybe in a few years they will improve it.

It looks way too much like IE also.

I find that most people who complain about validating have teeny tiny sites that no one visits and no one cares about, and the only attention they can get is to run around from forum to forum complaining about validating ;)

Just my two cents.



Oh, and by the way Josh... your site does not validate. As a matter of fact, you're not even close!! You have 31 errors!! For all the complaining you've done, you should have at LEAST validated your site first: :lol:

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joshmccrain.com+

Talk about hypocritical...
Why thank you lissa, as I have previously mentioned, I have a version on my computer that does validate.


I find that most people who complain about validating have teeny tiny sites that no one visits and no one cares about, and the only attention they can get is to run around from forum to forum complaining about validating

My site may not get as many visitors as yours does, but it gets a good number. normally around 500 unique a day. That's your opinion, and is normally not true.

you misinterpreted what I said. it is important FOR SOME PEOPLE. but for many, it isn't.



I think everyone has picked up on the fact that you prefer Mozilla. no need to drill it into peoples heads.



yes, that one organization declares what they believe to be the way to do things. if you want to conform to them, you can, but not everyone has to.

also, THE INTERNET ISN'T JUST HTML AND OTHER CODE. so don't make such a big deal about the code. there's more to it than that.
And you know what? Browsers are set up to conform to the standards that w3c sets. And I believe I have previously mentioned that the internet isn't just html. This is the way I do things, do it however you want. But like I've said, if i'm giving somebody a code, it's going to be correct.

I'e got an idea :idea:

Can we just drop this??!!??!!

People are just yelling and yelling and yelling and nothing is really getting done here, just arguing that one person wants it, and one person thinks it isn't necessary.

Look people: It's friggin opinion! If you do it, that's great. If you do not, well that's fine, too.

IT ISN'T THE INTERNET LAW. THE INTERNET POLICE ARE NOT GOING TO COME TO MY DOOR WHEN MY SITE GOES UP THAT ISN'T UP TO W3 VALIDATION STANDARDS.

Why thank you lissa, as I have previously mentioned, I have a version on my computer that does validate.



That sounds AWFULLY fishy to me... :fish:

That sounds AWFULLY fishy to me... :fish:

Would you like me to upload it and prove it to you? I like to finish what I'm doing and then upload it. The reason it's not is because I'm trying to get php working on it, and well...I'm sure you don't want to hear it about it.

I would love to drop it. Lock the thread.

Would you like me to upload it and prove it to you? I like to finish what I'm doing and then upload it. The reason it's not is because I'm trying to get php working on it, and well...I'm sure you don't want to hear it about it.

I would love to drop it. Lock the thread.

I think she would be glad to drop it if you drop the preaching about validating hehe :lol:

*shakes finger* practice what you preach!

I am not preaching about it. That's the way I do it. Close the thread. I'll upload my updated site if you want. It's just not finished. And isn't posting a link to it considered advertising?

Lil Sarah? Haven't seen you in a while

Welcome Back :)

Unless....I....just haven't noticed :lol:

it's called a discussion.

I agree. So why should this thread be locked? I don't see why, unless rules are broken.

I know why you want this thread to be locked, you are embarrassed that you are "losing" this debate/discussion.

And I don't see any yelling and yelling and yelling here :lol:

the currently most widely used browser is NOT set up to conform to w3c standards, as you've said many many times.

and you missed my point- I know you said the Internet isn't just HTML. that's why I think you sound ridiculous quite honestly, because you say that it isn't really a big deal (because the Internet isn't just HTML), yet you make it a huge deal.

I haven't read the whole thread. But here are my two cents on the topic.

If someone chooses not to be w3c compliant then it is their choice. At least as long as they are running a personal site. I believe any business should be w3c validate and be shown correctly in all major browsers. Some people don't really get into web design, they just want to make a site that looks good. Personally, I like to use xhtml and validate if possible.

Anywho, a bunch of that may have already been said... but I'm lazy :P

See that's what I've been trying to say.

Don't be a jerk and make everyone change (That's generalized, not towards you Hockey), and let people choose. It isn't always necessary.